How to Create Memorable and Stand-out Packaging for your Products with Denisa Parker

In this episode of the Product Powerhouse podcast, host Erin Alexander is joined by Denisa Parker, founder of Kind & Ivy Design Studio, to discuss the importance of product packaging and how to create memorable and stand-out packaging for your products. 

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On this episode we cover …

• The role packaging plays in creating a memorable unboxing experience.
• Why investing in packaging is crucial for small businesses.
• Understanding your target audience and aligning your packaging with their preferences.
• The importance of consistency and branding.
• The significance of sustainability in product packaging.
• The benefits of incorporating sustainability into your brand identity.

Throughout the episode, Denisa shares her expert insights and provides valuable advice on creating memorable packaging that will not only resonate with your target audience but also differentiate your products from the competition.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of the episode to post in your stories and tag me!  And don’t forget to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about Erin and how I help product-based business owners at Product Powerhouse.

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Hello, welcome to a new episode of the product powerhouse podcast. I have got to share with you that this podcast has hit some really fun milestones in the last few weeks that make me so excited. So I wanted to share those milestones with you. One is that we have recorded and published the 150th episode. 

We've had more than 50,000 downloads in the lifetime of the podcast. And recently, we have had more than 1000 downloads in a week. Which is just really cool to see the podcast gaining momentum. I love creating this podcast. It's so fun to chat with the guests. And to bring different topics to you. And I'm just so grateful that you are listening. 

And that you enjoy this show. So again, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. today we are doing a guest interview with a really cool entrepreneur. Her name is Denisa Parker and she is the founder of kind and Ivy design studio. And she calls herself a kind rebel on a mission to transform conscious small businesses into memorable brands. 

And she helps e-commerce brands unapologetically stand out in the market to create memorable experiences for their customers through branding, sustainable packaging design and web design. So in this conversation, we get deep into talking about sustainable packaging and why it matters to your customers and the types of people who want to purchase from brands who are being conscious of those decisions. We also talk about how do you create memorable branding so that your package stands out on the shelves of a store. And what I love from this conversation as we talk about Denise's process, which is different than I have heard of from other designers, even in the packaging space. So I really love her fresh take on creating great packaging for small business owners. 

I think you're going to love this conversation. Even if you have simple packaging, there's a lot of takeaways and some great messaging around your values. So I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we did recording it. 

Erin: hi Denisa, thank you so much for being on the podcast. How are you today?

Denisa: I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here and chat to you.

Erin: Oh, I am so excited. Today we're gonna be talking about packaging design and just like ways to create memorable packaging, which is so important for product-based businesses. So I know this is gonna be a great episode. Before we jump into that let's tell everyone who you are and what you do.

Denisa: Yeah, so I'm Denia. I'm the founder of Kind and Ivy, so we're a branding and packaging design studio. We're really all about working with conscious product led brands to help them really be confident in who they are, what they do, what makes them unique, and create that memorable experience, which a lot of the time we do through packaging.

Erin: Yeah, that's really cool. How did you get started in this industry?

Denisa: So I didn't go to school for design actually, so I have a master's degree in environmental science. And after a few years working as an environmental specialist, I realized I wanted to do something more to help businesses become more sustainable and embrace this mindset from the ground up.

So I combined the two biggest passions and things in my life, which were on the one side product, my love for product and my love for design, which is it's always been there. And then my love for sustainability and that kind of environmental side of things. And that's how kind and Ivy became to be, and it's the reason why today the brands that I work with the most are brands that either, try to challenge unsustainable practices in their industry or the things like greater product that in some ways supports their community or just try and do things in a kinder way.

They have that kind of underlying, Bigger purpose rather than just make money in their business. That's what's they're driven by.

Erin: I love that. I think that we are seeing a real shift in consumerism, that we are wanting to spend our dollars with companies that have the same values as we do, who are, trying to make a difference, who aren't just Throwing oil in the seat. Like we really want to have that connection with the things we're buying and the companies we're working with.

And I love that you had taken this with your passion of environmental science. That's really cool. I first foresee my daughter doing something like this. She's always like picking up garbage in litter and she wants to be a scientist. And I just really see her doing something she's super passionate about and tying that together.

She's also an artist, so I feel like it's really cool to see those passions like merge into a really cool business like yours.

Denisa: Yeah, absolutely. They do, and for me, they come together basically retain what I do. I find the big challenge as a designer because you want to design more and more things, but with like my sustainability mindset, I try to combine the two where I design packaging, but also design packaging that's sustainable.

So it's this lovely balance and this kind of challenge that I really enjoy because it's finding ways to tell the brand's story through design and through doing all these cool, amazing things and amazing designs that you see everywhere. But also keeping it very mindful and very conscious of the impact that it has on the planet.

Erin: Yes, and that's so important and it's hard for brands to sometimes do that. Like I'll work with companies or makers who don't know how to talk about their values in a way that their customers will care. Or sometimes they feel like it's bragging or it's not important. And I'm like, no, it's so important because people are looking for ways to connect with you.

And if that's one way that they can connect with you, they're gonna love you even more.

Denisa: Yeah, absolutely. And it goes back to what you mentioned earlier where, customers do pay money to brands that do certain, do things more, especially these days. Customers are more attuned and they pay attention to things like values, especially now that were in this, economic crisis and all these things going on.

And it's harder to get people to spend money on your business. So one way to do it is just be really transparent about what you do and how. Like how your values come to life, right? And if one of your values is being more sustainable, just being really transparent about that and what that means for your business.

And how you bring it to life, and I find that being honest and being really transparent about that. We're not a hundred percent sustainable at the moment. We're not as sustainable as we want to be, or we're not as socially minded as we want to be, but we're working on it and we're getting there and this is how we want to get there.

I feel like that's a great way to talk about your values, believe in what you do, and to trust you because transparency and accountability make customers trust you more.

Erin: Absolutely. I recently filled out some kind of application or something, I don't quite remember what it was for, and it asked me what my impact was. And I said, I'll be honest, it hasn't been a priority because I never really thought about it in terms of web design because, we don't think about what does it take to run a website?

Like what about the servers and things like that. And so I said, this is something I'm definitely learning and researching and want to pay more attention to. But so far I didn't really think about it. I'm still in those planning stages and I don't think I've heard back from them, but I felt good telling the truth.

I didn't wanna lie and say, oh, we're a hundred percent Carmen footprint free. I think that transparency and being open about it is something that's really important. And also you can do some of that with your customer feedback, for example, this is actually a great one.

There is this really great eco-friendly deodorant company that their package for their deodorant is impossible to get the deodorant out. It's so hard. And the first one I accidentally broke and I had to put it, I put it on with a plastic spoon. T m i, but and so like I did do a review and I said, I love your product.

It's like one of the only, chemical free deodorants that actually works for me, but it's really hard to get out of the package. And they replied and they said, a lot of our customers have brought this to our attention, so we're working on new packaging, and I've noticed that all of the scents are out of stock.

So I keep hoping that means that they're coming up with new packaging that is still eco-friendly, but easier to use.

Denisa: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of customer feedback has made brands in, at least in the last few years become more eco-friendly because people are actually demanding maybe not, demanding is a strong word, they're demanding that, the brands that they love and the brands that they support continuously to become more eco-friendly because if, for example, I find a brand that I really love, say I'm lactose intolerant I drink a lot of oatmeal. So if I find a brand of oatmeal that I really love I want that brand to be sustainable and I want them to have compostable and recyclable packaging.

But if they don't, I a hundred percent write to them as many others probably will to say, can you make this happen? Because we want to support these brands, but also we want them to be sustainable. So I think. Because a lot of people have been doing this in the last few years. A lot of brands have taken that feedback on board and have become more eco-conscious, which is amazing to see 

Erin: I'm also curious, this is something that I have heard from some of my clients when I've talked to them about their packaging. If you were going through the process of switching over to sustainable packaging, but it's going to be a substantial cost, hike, what do you recommend?

Like our consumers Willing to pay more, knowing that it's sustainable packaging and sustainable, recyclable boxes. Is that something that people are willing to pay more for in your experience? . 

Denisa: In my experience, and I think I've read quite a few sort of studies, but I never remember the numbers that it says that people do pay more for product if it is sustainable, if it comes in biodegradable, or reset recyclable packaging, or if it's ethically produced, ethically sourced. Customers do pay more, especially like eco minded customers. I'm an eco minded customer, and even if it's more expensive, I go for a brand that is a bit more. If they have certifications that they're sustainable, organic, or ethical.

Because I care about these things. So a lot of the consumers that are eco minded or socially minded or ethically minded will pay more. Because they believe in those things. They believe in being more ethical or more sustainable, so they will pay more. Definitely. I do definitely agree with that.

Erin: Yeah, I agree too and I feel actually like, I feel a little bit of guilt. I used to do a lot better at this before I had kids, and then it was a lot more difficult once you have kids, and so I just kinda got lazy and out of the habit. I also live in a small town I used to be ordering a lot of stuff instead of buying it locally.

Cuz we only have one store really. And then again, like I said, after I had kids, I just got lazy and, but I noticed I have been, seeing myself like gravitate mores towards things that are like refillable packaging so that I can just reuse the same bottle I already have. I really love my shampoo company, they switched to refillable packaging and more eco-friendly packaging. And I love Dave. It's so exciting. But I also have noticed myself getting a little bit lazy with that, or I have gotten lazy and want to get back into it. So this is a good reminder for me personally. 

Denisa: I think that brings up a good point. You know where you said that you don't have locally, you might not have that many options, which means if you are looking for something more sustainable, you'll probably go online.

If you were to basically anything online that, shipping packaging that, the mailer bag or whatever it's, that comes in and all the other like fluffs in packaging that is inside it to protect the product and to transport the product. All of that is also packaging and brands have to also consider that. And I've seen brands that, say, oh, we're sustainable, we're eco minded. But then when it comes to their shipping packaging, they're not so eco minded because you see things wrapped in plastic. So it's that disconnect. It's really important that, if you make an effort for your product packaging, so for example, the labels or the boxes that the product itself comes in, if you make an effort for those to be more sustainable, so like recyclable, biodegradable, whatever it is, or reusable. Then also you have to make an effort for everything else within that packaging realm to also be at the same standard because they're all equally as important.

Erin: I think that it's easy to forget about those things when you are thinking about your brand, cuz you almost feel like you don't have as much control over those. But there are a lot of ways to find eco-friendly packaging, shipping, packaging. One of my friends, she'll reuse the packages that her supplies come in and I love that.

There's a good time to have like really gorgeous packaged, experienced stuff, but some of the things maybe could be recycled, reused from what you already had from your shipments coming in.

Denisa: Absolutely. And that's something that I always encourage my clients to think about as well. And I think about, because I feel like it's also part of my job to think about creating packaging that's reusable in one way or another or that you can return. So you know, for example, if you have if you're a candle brand, there's many different ways that you can reuse that sort of candle as a pinhole or brush hole or whatever holder you wanted it to be.

So it comes down to educating your customers and encourage them to use it. And something that I've seen the last few years pop up here or there very rarely. So it's definitely an opportunity for someone that's like listening and interested in this is Basically to create like cutouts.

This applies to like shipping packaging, so to those big mailer boxes or to the product packaging itself. When you take the product out and then you lay it all flat on the inside of that box, there's like different shapes that, customers can cut out and then put together basically like a 3D puzzle really. And it's very interactive and it's definitely memorable. And if you know a lot of the times, because it's something that they've made and it probably looks nice, in whatever shape you want it to be, it probably looks nice. They'll keep it. And I feel like that's really memorable because your customer sees it probably every single day.

And I have a lot of different containers on my desk and in my office that they're empty. I've used them ages ago, but I keep them because I can reuse them for different things or they've been beautifully designed and they have the logo on them. So I see the logo a lot. But it's a great way to create something that's memorable, but it's also more eco-friendly because you get to reuse it and it doesn't end up in the landfill at the end of the day.

Erin: That makes me think of like when you get an order and it ha it does have really luxurious packaging, like a really nice box or it's like sturdy and you're like, I can't get rid of this. And so you do reuse it and then you're seeing that brand, that logo, wherever. My daughter is like the queen of reusing things sometimes to the point where I'm like, okay, we cannot keep every cereal box that comes into the house.

But like sometimes the pro of spending a little bit more on your packaging is that they will keep it. They will be reminded of you. They can reuse it and you can give them ideas. I have worked with a candle company in the past just because you brought up candle companies who sent a little packet of like wildflower seeds that you were supposed to put inside the vessel once it was empty and it was so cute.

I loved that. 

Denisa: That's exactly how you should think strategically about your packaging so that it's reusable and it's memorable in that sense.

Erin: We started talking about sustainability and the eco-friendly side of things, cuz it is something that you're really passionate about, which I love, but it's also part of making a memorable experience for your customers, right?

So you focus on brand design. So when you're working in designing packaging, how do you tie in that, how do you make something memorable within the design?

Denisa: It's a very good question and it differs from brand to brand, it depends on what's most appropriate for the brand. So it could be something like choosing one or two brand colors and just use it in them very consistently throughout the entire, like packaging suite to create that, it ties in with, the customer's mind.

A asop might not be the best example because Asop uses like black and white, which technically aren't colors, you think of, ASOP is black and white, or I dunno, Starbucks, they're green. So you definitely think of Starbucks when you see that green. Or cabri, they're, I'm not sure if you know what Cabri is there like a chocolate cup. That purple. I think they actually have. Purple trade parked if I'm not wrong. 

It's, that purple and you think of, ooh, ca chocolate. So , it creates that kind of thick in the customer's mind when they see that color. So it's definitely a way to create more memorable and standout packaging. It doesn't necessarily work for all brands. So if you have a very strong differentiator within your product, something like scent or flavor, and you do want to make that distinction between each very clear, then that's not really The way to go. But another way to go could be illustrations.

So you can use illustrations on your packaging or, one of the ways I like to do it a lot is in the mailer boxes themselves. So I like to date inside this outside. It can look like a kind of simple box and a lot of the time, unfortunately, because of like weather and transportation, the book can get a little bit damage on the outside so it can ruin the design a little bit.

So just keeping it simple on the outside, but at inside you open it up and instantly you're like hit by that kind of surprise and you're hit by those illustrations and you're immediately into an experience and into the world of that brand. And other trick of mine is clever copy.

So you can pair that with some really clever copy that you can use something that's witty or funny because people remember like really witty or really funny taglines or sayings on packaging. That's another great way to use it. And you can use it on the box inside, outside, on the branded tape or just anywhere where it makes sense.

I remember from many years ago, I don't actually remember the brand name, but it's a great testament to how clever copy sticks with you and people remember it. Is on the bottom of packaging. It's like at the very like bottom where the product sits, basically, where no one looks, it's boring.

It's like where the barcode sits. So no one looks there. So you know, I remember looking at it's packaging and turning it on. Its back because I'm curious and I study product and I study packaging and I think it had copy very similar to the wording of, oh, cheeky, you're checking out my bottom. And I thought that was so clever at that time and so funny and clearly like years later, I still remember it.

Yeah, things like illustrations or clever copy can be really powerful in creating that really memorable experience in packaging. It doesn't have to be like anything extravagant or expensive, just like really strategically thinking about ways of doing it in that sense.

Erin: These are really fantastic tips. I'm just thinking of I was recently at Target and something I noticed in the like beauty aisle was packaging that was simplified colors, so it was like one or two colors was like a solid color with a darker color text or something like that.

And I felt like they really stood out on the shelf. And it's not complicated design, right? It's just being really strategic, like how is this product gonna be displayed and what's gonna make people gravitate towards it? And so having really unique eyecatching color combinations is big.

That eco-friendly company I was talking about with the deodorant, it's the Perri brand. I don't know if you've heard of them. They're like Ri, but it's just Piri is the name of their brand and then they have different ones. So they have Poo Piri, pit Piri, that's the deodorant brand and they have very illustrated packaging, lots of drawings of stuff on it.

And Those are two distinctive different packages, but they're both in the health and beauty, and people are gonna be, gravitate towards one or the other. And so it's really cool to see, to study that stuff and see how it works and, why does one person gravitate towards this or that.

It's really fascinating and I've noticed that like with your portfolio, your trend is more of a minimalist style, correct me if I'm wrong. The Florentine brand you did is wax candles and it has really strong fonts and then really great color palette and not a lot of extras.

Think it's beautiful. I think I'm drawn to that type of product.

Denisa: See, and that's the thing as well, that people are drawn to things that they like, and it's another way to create something that's quite memorable. And I find that simpler design that uses a few elements, but uses them really well and strategically, like we talked about, makes it a bit more memorable because there's, I'm not sure if this is like psychologically correct, so it might be like, Just saying the wrong thing here, but I think it's, the fewer things that they are on the packaging, it's easier to remember because there's fewer things to remember, if that makes sense.

At least that's how I think about it. It gives you more room to breathe and more room to understand what that product is about. Plus I'm very minimalist in my daily life as well. And I think that kind of comes through in my design too. And it does in part play through with the whole sustainability thing because I like to design fewer things, but design them better and more strategically and more mindfully and consciously.

Erin: I really like that approach of thinking about it mindfully and, being really conscious about what you're doing.

I feel like I can even tell from your like video background that you tend to be more minimalist, where mine's like pile of joke

Denisa: Different people function differently. If I have clutter, it's minimal here, it's a bit more cluttered in front of me where you can't see.

Erin: Yeah.

Denisa: But for me it's I need a bit of breathing room. I've never actually said this to like anyone, I've not talked about this, but if I have a more like minimal space, it allows me more easily to get in that kind of aesthetic and vibe of the bread I'm working on because they're not, they're generally more minimal, the brands that I work on, but some of them are more refined and sophisticated.

Some are more like down to earth or funny. So having like a clearer, like clutter free space allows me to bring in some very curated items or have a candle in a specific smell, have a playlist and a specific like vibe. And I get into that kind of groove and mindset of the brand itself.

Whereas I feel like if there's like lots of things around then it's always the same. Maybe it's just cuz I'm like very visually driven as a person. 

Erin: Think that's awesome. It makes me feel better because I tend to work with lots of handmade businesses and artists, and so like I have their art on my desk and I have like handmade cards on my desk and I have artwork, and it just, I like being surrounded by the things that they made. I do tend to purchase their handmade products because I just feel inspired by the time and energy they spent in that. And so I think that's really cool. 

Denisa: Yeah, definitely, especially if you're like a visual person, it, or if your mood is easily affected by other things it definitely helps put you in that frame of mind.

Erin: Yeah. Okay. I have the specific client in mind who has packaging that's really not cute and it's no fault of her own, like she's trying, but she feels like there's a lot of education that has to be done with her product. So how can you combine some of that education with a really well designed product?

Do you ever run into that issue?

Denisa: Sometimes I would ask. Does the education have to happen before they purchase the at what point does she need to do with the education? Is it like before they decide to buy the product? Before they buy it? Before they use it after? Because at that, that can help me answer it.

Erin: So I'm just of her. I know that it needs to happen before, because each product is related to a very specific thing. And so the person needs to know what that thing is before they purchase the product because they're aligned. If you were buying like a necklace that was like a gemstone of a certain type, and these gemstones all represent different things, they would want to know that upfront.

And I know that her struggle is with like if she was selling wholesale, the problem is that how can she display those products in a store where there's already lots of products and get all that information across, but still have nicely designed packaging. And that's her particular struggle.

And I know you don't have, you don't have to give like specific advice to her, and I don't even know if she listens to the podcast. It's just like a thought that came up is like, how do you balance, like getting all the information on there. If you're doing a health and beauty product, you have to have all the ingredients and all of the different health labels.

How do you balance having all the right information and having a really great design?

Denisa: Yeah, it can be quite tricky, especially if you have a product that's not Big, if you have quite small packaging for the product, there's different ways of getting around it. But one of my favorite ones is actually QR codes because, and it works if you're in store as well because you can easily, scan the QR code and you can make them specific to each product.

 You can have a QR code that's specific to that gemstone and it sends you to that specific page. It makes getting that information as easy as possible. And I feel like people do, even in store, perhaps they'll, go into a QR code, especially if the copy is written cleverly and in a way that gets people to, oh yes, I do want to go and find out about this now.

Quite enticing copy. It can be done that way.

Erin: Isn't it crazy how QR codes disappeared and then the pandemic brought them back and I think it's really fun. And I never used a QR code before the pandemic, but now I'm using them all the time.

Denisa: Yeah, I see them all the time now. Which is great because they work really well and it allows you to pack a lot of information in a tiny space. 

Erin: Yeah, I love that restaurants now have their menus on QR code, so you don't have to touch the menu that 25 other people touched.

Denisa: True and it makes it quite coming back, so that kind of sustainable, more eco-friendly because the restaurant doesn't have to print a hundred different menus every night. And same with, the packaging. They don't have to print extra materials that, cost the business owner money.

And at the end of the day, let's be honest, the customer's just gonna throw it in the trash. If it's recyclable, they might recycle it, but they might not recycle it because truthfully, not everyone thinks about that. So it just saves on that as well, if you just use a QR code to have all your important information there.

Yeah, and just have the absolute key information, like the legal information that you have to have for a skincare brand and you are like net weight and addressing all that sort of stuff that you need to have on there. And the like verbiage and like brand copy and all of that have that through a QR code.

Erin: I wonder if you just have any tips you can give people who maybe don't feel great about their packaging for whatever reason. Like how do they get started? Revamping packaging that they already have.

Denisa: I don't think there's a straightforward answer to be honest, because it depends. It depends a lot on what their goals are with redoing their packaging. Like why they're, they want to redo it, what's not working about it, and what their current packaging looks like. Does it need to like be completely gutted and start from scratch, or does it just need a bit of a facelift?

I don't like that word, but I've used it anyway. So it it depends. I would say, go back to your brand foundations or brand strategy and think about what's most important to you, what's most important to your customers? How can you bring that out in a visual way and just start small.

And then think of what's the most important thing that your customer cares about? Of course, you have to have the product name on there. And think about the hierarchy of things. I'm sure that, you'll know about that because it applies to web design as well, doesn't it?

Like the reading Gordon, the hierarchy, and think about either your product name is probably one of the most important things. Your brand name, maybe a little bit less and then things like the net weight, the address of that slightly boring stuff is the least important. So make, that's the smallest, but make your product name the biggest and just making these really strategic decisions and thinking about it in this way rather than, going about it the visual way. What looks pretty. What's functional and what matters most is the more important thing to think about. And then I also say keep it all cohesive and consistent because the number of times I see people that diy they're packaging and they have five products look one way, and then five products look a completely different way and then some other different designs.

And it looks like it belongs to many different brands. That's definitely not the way to make your packaging look memorable because people won't know what your brand looks like. So these are the key things I'd say.

Erin: Yeah, I think it really, we are always going back to like, why is this important? What does it add? What is the value? And not necessarily like the dollar amount, but what are the values or like what is the reasoning behind it? Which is where we started is like, why is this so important to you?

And for example, I'm currently going through the rebranding process because, I felt like my business has grown so much since I established my brand in 2019, I think. And so it was like, I feel like it's missing an element of fun and when I worked with my brand designer, she was going through those questions like, what is missing?

Why do you feel like it's misaligned? And I think that's so important when you're thinking about your packaging too. Like why are you thinking that you need to redo it? Because that's the biggest component of what you were doing.

I do want to point out, this kind of can go back into brand strategy, which is a big part of everyone's business and that is something you offer.

So if you are listening and you're like, man, I really want to work with Denia on my brand strategy, cuz everything goes back to that strategy, that is something you do. So will you quickly tell us about your offers or your services?

Denisa: yeah, of course. So my core offers are brand identity and packaging design. But they all start with brand strategy. I rarely offer brand strategy on its own because I usually find that once people do some brand strategy with me, they're like I wanna put it into practice and do the brand identity now.

So I offer it as a full package. So yeah, we start with brand strategy, which is setting these really clear foundations for what you do, why you do it, who it's for, because you need to say, say it to the right people and what makes you unique, what makes you memorable. And then we bring that out in a visual way through the packaging design and the brand identity.

Which for product businesses, that is the majority of the businesses that I work with, we build them together. So I don't just design the identity first and like the logo and all of that first, and then move on to the packaging. I design the identity and the packaging altogether.

So basically I design on the packaging itself, like with the mockup in front of me on the packaging itself, because that's one of the best ways to make sure that the product stands out and is effective and actually allows you to get to where you wanna be and stand out and be memorable.

Erin: I think that's really cool because as a fellow designer, like I have designed brands in the past, it just wasn't something I was passionate about, so I stopped offering them, but I never once considered designing the packaging first. And I think that's what makes working with someone who specializes in packaging, So unique and critical to that design.

If you are about to put a product on the shelves of target, like you need it to stand out, you need to know what it's gonna look like on the package from the very beginning. And so that's so important. And I love that you have a different process for that because that is where you specialize. Thank you for sharing your process.

Denisa: Yeah, of course. Sometimes you can tell when packaging has been designed separately, and when it's been designed, when the brand identity has been designed with the packaging in mind, sometimes you can really tell that when it's been like the logo's been done and then it's been slapped on and made to fit.

And when it's been done strategically and intentionally, and it shows quite a lot of the time.

Erin: Yeah, I have an example. There's a restaurant in my town that it's a Chinese restaurant and it had a sign that was like a dragon shape and then they got a new logo and you can tell that whoever they hired, just took the old shape and put the new logo in there because it doesn't fit. And it's like they crammed stuff in there.

It's weird and everything's not proportionate, nothing's lined up. And I'm just like, why didn't they just get a new sign with the new logo? They just tried to fit it into the old one and it doesn't work for them at all.

Denisa: See, designing everything together is the key.

Erin: Yes, absolutely. Okay. I like to ask everyone the same question, and that is, is there anything in your business that is something you're currently learning? Just to show it doesn't matter what you do or how long you've been in business, you're always learning and growing as an entrepreneur.

Is there something you are currently learning in your own business?

Denisa: There, I mean there always is something I'm learning and just going through. I feel like currently it's learning to show up for my business and kind of market outside of social media. Because, Instagram's great and it's brought my clients over the years. It's fine, but it doesn't create any real connections with people, not just potential customers but with business owners and people.

And I spend so much time, I get sucked up in spending so much time printing content for Instagram and especially now that it's changing so much with the algorithm and everything. And I just feel like it's just now paying off. So I'm trying to find different ways that align more with my values as a business as well to create more considered content and more valuable content.

And it create these one-to-one or like more personable, relationships rather than just put something else there for knows who to see in a way.

Something I'm trying to figure out is. Do I wanna put more energy into my email marketing or into creating like, blog post. I'm already looking into, go into events and organizing more community based things.

But yeah, just trying to do things without social media.

Erin: I love that it is like a hill. I will die on that. Social media is just one way of marketing your business. And I see a lot of people complain about it and I'm like did you send an email? Did you do thi, did you try anything else besides complaining about social media? And I say that with love because I get it.

I spend too much time on social media too. And I'm really encouraging people right now to think about the things that we've already been doing in different ways instead of getting really sucked up into social media and what it's not doing.

So I love that you're embracing that and trying different things to see, where is it best aligned for your business? Cause that is a big thing. 

Denisa: Yeah. No, absolutely. It's great to hear that, other business owners thing the same. So , thanks 

Erin: Yeah. Why don't we just wrap it up by telling everyone where they can find you and hang out with you online?

Denisa: Yeah, so my website is kind and iv.com, but I generally hang currently still hang out on Instagram. And I'm at kind and iv.studio.

Erin: Awesome. And we will have the link to your Instagram and to your website on the show notes of the episode so ,everyone can find you that way. And I just wanna thank you so much for being here. It was such a great conversation talking about creating packaging that's memorable, but also fits your values.

I think this is gonna be an episode that everyone loves and listens to over and over.

Denisa: Thank you. It was really lovely to have this conversation with you.